Indiana Pacers General Manager Chad Buchanan sat down with Setting the Pace for an hour-long conversation earlier this week covering a plethora of topics. 

The Pacers GM openly discussed many topics. Below is a transcript of the second third of the interview including stories of Bennedict Mathurin’s baking prowess, Ben Sheppard’s development, what they hope to see from Jarace Walker in the future, the rise of Andrew Nembhard, Aaron Nesmith’s development, and the season and future for Obi Toppin.

The first-third of interview covering the Pacers playoff run and how that will affect future plans, Tyrese Haliburton’s health over the last half of the season, rising expectations, how different voices in the locker room helped the team after bad playoff games, the pain of getting swept by Celtics, and how the team can take the next step on both ends of the floor can be read here or watched below. 

More available soon on Pascal Siakam’s upcoming free agency, wanting to keep T.J. McConnell in a Pacers uniform forever, Haliburton’s Olympic plans, how happy he was for Myles Turner, and much more. Transcript of the rest of the interview is available here.

You can watch the interview in its entirety ok YouTube below or listen to the Setting the Pace podcast from any of your preferred providers.

Alex Golden, co-host of Setting the Pace: One of the most talked about players that we didn’t see a lot this year was Jarace Walker, and a lot of fans were chomping at the bit to see him on the court. I know that he didn’t get a chance to play really much in the playoffs at all. But he was there to kind of experience it from the sidelines. So a couple of questions for you. One, what did he learn from this playoff experience, even though he wasn’t really in the rotation? And then two, what did you guys learn about Jarace and the future of his career even while he didn’t get a lot of playing time this season? 

Buchanan: I’d say he probably would tell you that he learned the intensity that takes every single possession in a playoff series. You go through regular season games and there’ll be quarters or stretches where players just kind of find a way to coast a little bit, and that doesn’t take place in a playoff game. I think he would tell you that one thing that he really learned was the physicality part.

I think he sees some of these guys who are really being physical against our defense, and we didn’t always have the matchups to handle that. I think he realized, ‘Hey, maybe I could help us with some of that.’ We encouraged him to watch some of these high-scoring wing players from Middleton to Brown, Tatum, all these guys that we’re playing against. Watch these guys, envision yourself, how would you try to slow these guys down? Getting him thinking more from the defensive side of the ball. 

He had such a good year scoring the ball for us in the G League, and that’s good, but we want him to be that kind of utility guy who can do a little bit of everything. And we really need the defensive side, we need that big bodied guy that can match up with some of these 6’7”, 6’8”, 6’9” scoring wings that sometimes are a little big for Aaron, whereas Jarace has more of the size and the length and the body to handle that.

As for us as a front office, as the season progressed with him, we saw obviously as a rookie, there was lots of, he was riding the wave. There’s some highs, there’s some lows, and it’s easy for a young player to get discouraged, especially when you’re picked where he was picked and to not be in the rotation. I think he was disappointed. I mean, who wouldn’t be, you want to play, you want to be out there contributing. The opportunity very rarely came for him because we had guys playing well at his position that deserved to play. Not that Jarace didn’t deserve to play, but the guys in front of him didn’t deserve to just go sit because another guy is waiting to play. That’s not how Coach Carlisle and our staff operate. You’ve got to earn your spot.

We wanted to see Jarace every opportunity he got, to go out there and play with intensity, play with physicality, play with force. That’s something that would kind of fluctuate this year. And that’s what we talked to him a lot about. I think this summer, it’s a real priority for him to learn to use the gift that he’s given physically and use his body on both ends of the floor. I think he’s got very high two-way ability but it’s just going to take a little time for that to come out. He’s got to earn his way.

That’s just that’s the way the NBA is. You could throw him out there and give him all these minutes and he’d gain all these bad habits. It’s not how to develop a player. He’s got to do things the right way and earn his way. That’s how everybody on our roster has been.

Mike Facci, co-host of Setting the Pace: Another player that the Pacers didn’t see in the playoffs was Bennedict Mathurin. Mathurin, unfortunately, had that shoulder injury. As he enters year three, what is it that you really want to see out of Bennedict Mathurin from an off-season improvement standpoint?

Buchanan: I think Bennedict learned as much as anybody. You asked the question about Jarace, what did he learn from the playoffs. If you ask Bennedict, I think he took away a lot of helpful things.

He saw how we play, how we succeed: playing fast, our wings sprinting the floor, sprinting to the corners, quick decisions with the ball, and playing with some effort, intensity, and physicality all game long defensively. And I think that really was an eye-opener for him because I’m sure he’s sitting there thinking, ‘Gosh, we’re having a lot of success and I’m not out there. Like, I need to play the way these guys are playing. Look at what we’re doing with this style.’

Because Bennedict has a certain style of game that’s very helpful to us on a lot of nights, but it doesn’t always fit cleanly with the way the rest of the guys play. Trying to mesh those two styles together is something that’s going to take some time. There’s nights where you just need a guy that’s just going to blow his way to the rim and get a foul and get a bucket. The rest of the guys, we’re really moving the ball, making quick decisions. You know, guys don’t hold the ball very long, where Bennedict’s kind of learning to play that way.

I think he knows that’s something he’s got to learn to kind of adapt to the way the rest of the guys are playing. And we’ve challenged him on that. He knows that’s something he’s got to add to his game, is making quick decisions.

He could be a terrific defender, I mean, phenomenal defender if he really commits to it. The concentration level it takes to be a good defender is a talent because when you’re guarding a good player, they are just waiting for you to make a mistake, whether that be ball watching or not sprinting back or your closeout is improper or you just fall asleep for a second. You got to have your mind engaged all the time as a good defender. That’s something we’ve challenged him as well. But I think he’s going to—I know he’s going to—work like that. He’s one of the most competitive guys we have on the team and he wants to be great. 

And he wants the truth. He wants you to tell him what he needs to work on. Coach Carlisle is very truthful and upfront with him. And Benn likes that. And Benn wants to be challenged. I think he’s been challenged heading into this offseason to kind of adapt to the way our team plays.

Bennedict Mathurin wasn’t able to contribute to the Pacers surprise run to the ECFs due to injury but he’s still seen as a potential star by the organization.

On the baker, receipt keeper, and fierce competitor looking to earn it all

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— iPacers.com (@iPacersblog) June 6, 2024

Golden: Staying with Benn here. I mean, we heard two things I think that were really interesting from Benn in his exit interview with the media. Number one, he loves to bake. So I’m curious if he’s ever baked you anything, what was something you liked? 

Buchanan: Yeah, the baking part is funny. This was probably toward the end of the year. We were at practice one day. We were leaving to go out of town the next day for some road trip. And he’s sitting over there underneath the basket with Ted Wu and I and Carl Eaton. Somehow, somebody was talking about food and somebody asked Ben, like, ‘What’s your favorite cookie?’

Some cookies came up and I forget what he said. And he goes, ‘What’s your favorite cookie?’ And I said, ‘I love M&M chocolate chips.’ And he asked Ted what his favorite cookie was. I think Ted said snickerdoodle or something like that. And it was just a casual moment of a conversation. And then the topic turned to something else, and you didn’t think anything of it. 

We get on the plane the next day. Benn comes to the plane where Ted and I are sitting. He’s made a box of chocolate chip and M&M cookies for me and a box of snickerdoodles for Ted. And I’m like, you made these?

He goes, ‘Yeah, you remember yesterday you told me this was your favorite kind? I listen to you guys. I want to make you guys happy.’ I tell him that was really nice of you. 

So Benn was making cookies all playoffs. He was walking through the plane, handing out cookies to everybody on the plane. And his personality really started to come out. He wanted to be on the court so bad, and if he couldn’t contribute on the court, he wanted to contribute in some way. I think maybe baking the cookies was his way of contributing. 

Golden: That is a great story. Number two on Benn, he said that he kind of keeps receipts on what people say about him. If you look at his recently liked or most recently liked tweet, it’s actually from our podcast when we did it with Coach David Thorpe. Thorpe actually said that the Pacers are better when Mathurin’s not playing because he’s a liability defensively. What have you seen from him in terms of how he responds to negative criticism on social media and taking things personal?

Buchanan: He listens. He is an intense listener. He doesn’t talk a lot. He’d rather listen. And he’s taken in everything that you say. He likes to have a fire lit under him. Sometimes maybe he might twist words that are said about him a little bit, because it helps drive him. I love that. Kobe used to do that. MJ used to do that.

I think Benn is always looking for a little edge. He’s always been kind of the underdog in his mind. He wants other people to kind of like—he doesn’t want people telling him he’s great. He doesn’t like that.

He always told me this great story. Tommy Lloyd is a good friend of mine. He was his college coach and maybe I’ve told you guys this before, but he said Ben used to hang out in his office at Arizona a lot. Tom is like ‘Benn, why are you always in my office? Why don’t you go out on campus and have some fun here in Arizona. Like look at the weather, all the people here, why aren’t you out there enjoying being a student and being a basketball player at Arizona?’ Benn goes, ‘Everybody out there just tells me how good I am. You tell me all the stuff I need to work on. I’d rather hear that than all that stuff out there.’ 

So that was when he was in college and it hasn’t changed here. That’s just how he’s wired and how he’s made up. I’m sure if he gets the chance to take anything you say, it’s registering in the bank for him. And it’s sitting in there for a while.

Golden: A handful of the guys on your roster this year had their first playoff experience, and one of those guys that I felt really stepped up and kind of answered that call was Andrew Nembhard. Nembhard started at point guard when Tyrese went down for games three and games four against Boston and really stepped up. When you look at his game and kind of just evaluate where he’s at as a player, do you view him as your long-term starting shooting guard or is that starting spot going to be something he has to continue to keep earning?

Buchanan: I think Coach Carlisle would tell all of our guys, you got to continue to earn your spot. Don’t ever be content or be happy with where you’re at. You’re either getting better or you’re getting worse. If you sit still, you know, the train’s going to run right over you. And that applies to Andrew, too. 

Obviously, he had a lot of success playing the one. That’s his natural position. And when we drafted him, we envisioned him, kind of molding himself long term to maybe be our backup point guard once TJ got a little older. But he gets in as a rookie and he doesn’t make a lot of mistakes, very high IQ. He’s tough, he defends. And our coaches, Coach Carlisle said, ‘I got to play him. I just got to get him on the court.’

And then maybe playing him out of position. Andrew never has once complained about the role or position or touches or anything like that. That continued this year. Those games in the playoffs where we didn’t have Tyrese and even throughout the season when he was our starting point guard, he plays with a different mentality. When Tyrese is there and he’s playing off him, he defers a little more to Tyrese and knows his role is to really guard the primary ball handler and to play off Tyrese, find opportunities when they’re there offensively to score the ball. But it’s more of a defensive role. When Tyrese isn’t there, he’s trying to do both. And he obviously had tremendous success for us in game three and game four. 

For us to not have Andrew on the team, to move him it would have to be one heck of a player because we think the world of him and his versatility, his toughness. I think that really came out in the playoffs; his toughness really showed. He’s fearless. He’s quiet and he’s not a rah-rah guy, but he is a tough, tough dude. I love having him on the team. Whatever role it is, I just think he’s a big part of our group.

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$16

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— iPacers.com (@iPacersblog) April 11, 2024

Facci: Another guy who’s probably going to have to earn his starting spot again that I loved what I saw this year is Aaron Nesmith. It feels like from the time of the Malcolm Brogdon trade, if we can call it that if we want, where Nesmith was a piece in that deal compared to now in the playoffs, having that matchup guarding the toughest player on the other team, whether it’s a Jalen Brunson or a Jayson Tatum. Is this something the front office envisioned when they pulled that trade off compared to present day? How far has he come since being a Pacer?

Buchanan: I’d be lying if I told you I thought he’d be our starting three in the Eastern Conference Finals in year two with us. During the draft, we loved his shooting. He was a movement shooter who could run off screens and get hot and score the ball. As he got into our system after the trade, we saw there was kind of a different side to him. He was a tough-minded, rugged defender. He’s more athletic than you realize. Just a guy whose energy and effort every night, every day was so consistent and so steady. 

And there’s nights where he’s making shots. There’s nights he’s not. But the effort, the intensity, the toughness, the physicality, the competitiveness, the motion is there every single night. And when you’ve got a team that thrives on shooting and running the floor, playing fast, you need somebody in your lineup that’s willing to embrace the dirty work. Aaron does that every single night. To see him have success with us and continue to get better and better, I know he didn’t shoot it great in the playoffs, but he had a phenomenal year for us. He just continues to get better and better. I think this playoff experience, having to guard some of the guys he had to guard from Middleton to Brunson to Tatum and all those guys, is only going to help him.

I think defensive players become great defenders later in their 20s because they’ve gone through getting torched early in their career by guys, and they start to figure out how to defend some of these high-scoring wings or high-scoring guard, whatever your position you’re at. So I think you’ll see Aaron continue to get better and better as a defender. As long as he continues to play with the effort and intensity he has, he’s going to be hard to keep off the floor.

Facci: Another young player on the Pacers, Ben Sheppard, when all was said and done, was starting games in the Eastern Conference Finals, really blossomed defensively, and gained invaluable experience. Tell us about what you loved about Ben Sheppard as the season went on.

Buchanan: He’s an awesome fit with the way Rick and our offensive system works. It’s sprinting to the corners for the wings. It’s making a quick decision whether to catch it, drive it or pass it. He is in constant fast motion. He does nothing at half speed. He does nothing at 90% speed. It’s 100% all the time. He walked into the door to his exit meeting and it’s like Kramer walking into the door at Seinfeld. And I’m like, ‘Geez, you just come into a room at 100% too, don’t you?’

He’s always got a smile on his face and the guys in the locker room love that about him. He’s the same guy every day, which as a coach, as a teammate, that’s what you want. You know what you’re getting every night from Ben. As he gained more confidence as the season went on and his role started to advance into something bigger and bigger and to be starting in the Eastern Conference Finals as a rookie—I can’t believe this is happening for him.

He’s just like, ‘I’m just going to play the way I played all year. This is just how I played my whole life.’ He’s a great fit with us because he doesn’t try to do anything out of what his level of skill is. I think you’ll see as he gets older and more mature, he’ll add more stuff. He’ll be able to do more things off the dribble. You’ll see him get a little stronger, a little more physical. And his intelligence on the defensive end will only grow more and more as he gets more experienced because his effort is always there.

He and Aaron, those guys just play so hard defensively. And there’s certain matchups that they don’t have the size or maybe the length or whatever it might be, but the effort is always going to be there. Ben’s another example of a guy if he gets more experience under his belt, you’re going to see him evolve. We talk about a guy like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Ben could turn into something like that or a Danny Green, a guy who’s just a piece to a—really wherever he goes, the team wins. That’s just kind of because he plays winning basketball, guys respect him, and coaches trust him.

Golden: Well, I know KCP is a free agent this year. So just saying, if you want to bring him into the team, get him some time there with Ben Sheppard, that’d be interesting. But I know you can’t talk about that, but just had to bring that up.

Anyway, we saw Isaiah Jackson play a little bit more in the playoffs than he had been towards the end of the season. What does he need to do this off-season to really kind of solidify that backup center spot for him moving forward?

Buchanan: There were steps that he made this year, a little less fouling, he’s a very aggressive physical player, which kind of led to some unnecessary fouls at times. I think he’s starting to clean that up a little bit. I think continuing to work on his body. He’s obviously a very quick twitch, very aggressive guy. The stronger he can get, the more impactful he can be. Rebounding wise, the more impactful of a finisher he can be.

You look at Dallas. Dallas has two centers that are very similar, a little bigger than Isaiah, but they’re rim rollers, they’re lob threats, they crash the glass, they take good shots, they’re great screeners, they have a very defined, simple role. And I think Isaiah can do those things very well. We’re not wanting him to expand and start shooting threes yet.

That may come in time, but you’re not trying to drastically change some of that young player’s game. That’s got to kind of evolve in time. Getting him to the point where he’s a guy who can play with the edge he’s got—he’s got a real fierce, toughness to him that I love. He does not back down from anybody, like nobody. And as his body gets stronger and he gets more confident as a finisher and cleans up some of his fouls, he’s got a chance to be a terrific backup center for us. You saw glimpses of it in the playoffs.

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there’s been something about game threes in this playoff run. will we get a third classic?

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— iPacers.com (@iPacersblog) May 24, 2024

Facci: I loved the trade you guys pulled off for Obi Toppin. Can you tell us what surprised you the most about Obi and why you love that fit with the Pacers?

Surprising thing, I would say the catch and shoot really became consistent and steady. To the point where you were disappointed when you didn’t see him let it fly. When you feel like he had some space and he might shot fake and drive or he might just move it, you want to just kind of let it fly because you have so much confidence in his shooting. Another thing that surprised me a little bit with him was there were nights defensively where he really impacted the game. I think he took on the challenge some certain matchups, certain nights where we really needed it.

The fit, we thought when we traded for him, the fit was going to be was going to have a chance to be very good because we can really run. He really gets out. Coach likes our guys to sprint the floor. He does that as well as any power forward in the league. The personality in the locker room was a clean fit too and very well respected, very well liked by players, coaches, staff.

I think it was just a very, very good year for him. I think he felt he kind of found a home with us. He thought this might be a good spot for him and we got him got here. I think he really enjoyed the fans. He enjoyed the system. You know, his family seemed to be happy here as well. So can’t say enough good things about the type of season he had. He was our only player who played 83 games in the regular season, didn’t miss a playoff game either. So very, that’s a huge, huge deal in the NBA to not miss a game. We actually presented an award to him in his exit meeting for that. That’s a very, very big deal in our league and happy for him and all that he did for us this year. And like I said, hope he’s with us moving forward.

Watch the full interview below. Read part one involving the Pacers playoff run, Haliburton’s health, and where they need to improve here.